Ireland, women, and the Nordic model

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Z6IIAB
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Post by Z6IIAB » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:05 pm

Crookedman wrote:In my country prostituition is legal but the act of profit from someone's else prostitution is a crime, so the exploitation of Prostitution is a crime not the act it self.

So pimps are almost non-existant and there are many ways and laws a sex-worker can go after to protect herself.

So the majority of sex workers are self-employed.

What you guys think of this model?
What's your country?
Call me Celina. I've been a fan since 2007, and tried to enjoy the old forum since then too. Now that we have a forum for radfems/people who actually enjoy the comic! Hell yes! I'll call up all my buddies here!! Armageddon is coming.

Crookedman
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Post by Crookedman » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:49 pm

I'm from Italy but I beluve that's also the way prostitution works in Spain and Portugal.

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Post by Z6IIAB » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:42 am

Crookedman wrote:I'm from Italy but I beluve that's also the way prostitution works in Spain and Portugal.
Yikes!

Yeah, you are fooling yourself.
Call me Celina. I've been a fan since 2007, and tried to enjoy the old forum since then too. Now that we have a forum for radfems/people who actually enjoy the comic! Hell yes! I'll call up all my buddies here!! Armageddon is coming.

radicalradish
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Re: Ireland, women, and the Nordic model

Post by radicalradish » Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:45 pm

But radical feminism didn't change much since it's conceptions and the basic readings keep on being the ones wrote by people like Andrea Dworkins, Audre Lorde, Sheila Jeffreys and bell hooks
I wanted to point out that bell hooks is not a radical feminist. She is as liberal as they come, in my opinion (and I am a woman of Colour, so this is not just a White person misunderstanding her anti-racist work). My first clue to this was when she strongly supported Emma Watson's HeforShe movement, which was an attempt to centre men in feminism. I read bell's The Will To Change: Men, Masculinity and Love, and in the first chapter itself, she says that men are more oppressed by "the patriarchy" (the rule of the father - over the son) than women, because they are denied the opportunity to love, and that feminists have a responsibility to solve men's problems. This is extremely offensive to me. Feminism is not for men. Women are materially oppressed by men; all men are beneficiaries of patriarchy, and women's real oppression is more important than men's feelings. It's not up to women to fix men's emotional problems. That is not even a political issue. Let men create their own movement to teach young men to express their feelings.

radicalradish
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Re: Ireland, women, and the Nordic model

Post by radicalradish » Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:00 pm

I'm from Italy but I beluve that's also the way prostitution works in Spain and Portugal.
Here is an article about the horrific extent of sex trafficking in Spain:
https://www.theguardian.com/global-deve ... raffickers

90% of women in the sex trade are trafficked/enslaved (mostly desperate, impoverished migrants), and 10% of trafficking cases ever make it to court. The normalisation of prostitution in Spain is the reason for the high demand, which drives the impetus for sex trafficking. We need to abolish the sex trade now.

I used to be pro-sex work myself, because I thought it was my duty to listen to the sex workers' unions and associations, etc. But the demand to legalise the purchase of sex and the management of sex (pimping) shows that these "sex workers" do not care about women who are trafficked and enslaved in the sex industry, who make up the vast majority of those in the trade. Self-described "sex workers" are always talking about how they shouldn't be conflated with sex trafficking victims, and I totally agree. I am on the side of sex trafficking victims. Sex workers are advocating for laws that drive the trafficking in women's bodies and sex slavery, and I oppose them 100%.

Thank you Tatsuya for the link to Irish sex trade survivors - it is thanks to them that the Nordic model was adopted in Ireland; it wasn't an accident. They deserve to have their hard work recognised and their achievement celebrated. Here are more sources on the Irish grassroots anti-sex trade that focus on the efforts of women (especially survivors) against the sex trade:
https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-45103617
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/a-d93d- ... ion-laws-1
https://www.spaceintl.org/about/
https://www.ruhama.ie/

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Z6IIAB
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Re:

Post by Z6IIAB » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:58 pm

Crookedman wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:49 am
In my country prostituition is legal but the act of profit from someone's else prostitution is a crime, so the exploitation of Prostitution is a crime not the act it self.

So pimps are almost non-existant and there are many ways and laws a sex-worker can go after to protect herself.

So the majority of sex workers are self-employed.

What you guys think of this model?
Is that the Nordic model? Cause sounds like it.

Hah, yall remember when Tat beautifully unmasked that troll in this same topic? Good times
Call me Celina. I've been a fan since 2007, and tried to enjoy the old forum since then too. Now that we have a forum for radfems/people who actually enjoy the comic! Hell yes! I'll call up all my buddies here!! Armageddon is coming.

crawlerX
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Re: Ireland, women, and the Nordic model

Post by crawlerX » Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:09 pm

There is just no way to organize things in a way that would allow for a humanistic or voluntary prostitution. I read about it in a blog created by a "sex worker" - she was a person whom I thought was doing this absolutely voluntarily. The blog was written in a eloquent and funny manner, which I found interesting and depicted a stark contrast to what I had in mind when I thought about prostitution.

But then, the blog ceased, and in 2016 she wrote that she had been owned by a pimp the past few years, with ownership tattoos and so on, since she borrowed money from him and then he took her in as kind of a slave.

I was skeptic about this freedom of sex work beforehead, but this absolutely assured at least me that prostitution is and will be humiliating and cannot be allowed. It's always a step towards slavery.

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Re: Ireland, women, and the Nordic model

Post by Z6IIAB » Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:08 am

crawlerX wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:09 pm
There is just no way to organize things in a way that would allow for a humanistic or voluntary prostitution. I read about it in a blog created by a "sex worker" - she was a person whom I thought was doing this absolutely voluntarily. The blog was written in a eloquent and funny manner, which I found interesting and depicted a stark contrast to what I had in mind when I thought about prostitution.

But then, the blog ceased, and in 2016 she wrote that she had been owned by a pimp the past few years, with ownership tattoos and so on, since she borrowed money from him and then he took her in as kind of a slave.

I was skeptic about this freedom of sex work beforehead, but this absolutely assured at least me that prostitution is and will be humiliating and cannot be allowed. It's always a step towards slavery.
Image
Call me Celina. I've been a fan since 2007, and tried to enjoy the old forum since then too. Now that we have a forum for radfems/people who actually enjoy the comic! Hell yes! I'll call up all my buddies here!! Armageddon is coming.

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